Actually, those are the tools of the enemy, formerly called deception and it is THAT which God desires to rescue us from. His third publisher, Zondervan, has not yet responded to inquiries. The gospel includes that in spite of what happened God is willing to forgive and restore the sinner in relationship to God. He is loving and gracious and is you biggest fan! I did. . Megachurch pastors have big institutions to feed as well: huge entities that gobble millions a year, maybe hundreds of millions. Some will walk away all together from their faith journey. Alway such an emphasis on putting Willow Creek 1st, how about putting Jesus 1st? I hope someone captured that document. It is clear to me that God did not want this hidden any longer. It took celebrity to call out another celebrity because that is how that world works. Yesterday evening I was milling through the books at Goodwill. These things seem like nitpicking until you have more information. @ truthseeker00: Youre not alone Lyds. Ok, except that no one I know has heard of Willow Creek or Bill Hybels. You were a vulnerable target (especially with children) By your own philosophy of hugging then i would assume that the women who are complaining about Hybels hugging behavior also know the difference and therefore they are utterly correct in their objections to his behavior. The Devil is destroying yet another church. None of the first seven ecumenical councils dealt with this topic, which pretty much means that the line of heresy was never defined. What I count is as follows: What a great article! The term for this is Simul Justus et Peccator. That is me, that is you and that is everyone else. Other tricks of such manipulators include drawing others into guilt-causing behavior, for instance using swear words casually or tossing around jokes about blow jobs. I would assume these claims are multi million. What I see here is a whole lot of wholesale condemnation. Bill and Lynne Hybels draw on their own personal experience and a guiding faith to offer practical advice on how to enjoy a lifetime of togetherness -- from finding a suitable mate and dealing with the most common marital problems to avoiding the pitfalls that can sabotage a healthy relationship. Bye! This is Uncharted Territory for them. We still need to get together on that religious research thingie. HE GOT AWAY WITH IT, SO CAN I! And I promise: NO ONE was ever saved, in all history, because of eloquence. People not in the mega inner circle world dont understand it. I do, however, see how the dastardly could try and use the physical emotional responses to size up or groom a potential victim. Im not out to defend Rob Bell, but Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy, at least based on historical Christianity. Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. Shameful! I think the safest place for interaction is in public. For most, even for insiders (like I used to be, 2x an elder) it takes a very long time to finally look at things as they actually are and admit Pastor is not only not a decent guy, but whether hes aware of it or not, hes likely sold out to the service of hell itself! And many of them are, perhaps a number that would shock us all. But, visa-a-vis Nancys testimony, if things really were so bad and uncomfortable in that hotel room, why the following admittance: On a subsequent conference trip to Hawaii, I went running with Bill and he struck up a conversation about the amnesiac side effects of Ambien. Excuse me? Church Discipline For the whole world-system, based as it is on mens primitive desires, their greedy ambitions and the glamour of all that they think splendid, is not derived from the Father at all, but from the world itself. (1 John 2:16 Phillips), And then theres this: But then . Ok, gotcha. Marquet changed the Leader-Follower traditional naval paradigm to Leader-Allocate Control, resulting in success for all. Know who you are. People were being killed, thrown to lions and tarred and set on fire to be torches for for Neros garden parties. @ dee: If they were sent and stored in a encrypted format, then you would need the key to open them and read them. Since Hybels resigned, a few of the accusers have stated that they did not want it to come to that. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Nancy, like Vonda, believed her experience with Bill was an isolated incident. Okay, now is my choice to reference David. I bet she had help. Instead of turning the other cheek or choosing kindness in the midst of your disappointment, I see anger and a willingness to hurt other people. Willow Creek was promoted by Hybels as a model for all of christendom, Look at me, I have the answers. At times it became oppressive for those churches that were told to tear up their foundations and follow The Model. I dont see this issue is white or black hats. I dont fault them for that, but its what happens. Theres theory, and then practise. Stop the Nonsense, WCC Trebuchet Club!!!! !) called Give Me That Christian Side Hug went near-viral. Its YOUR money they use. I want to express my gratitude to Nancy for coming forward. It would seem somewhat of a legal issue to go around wiping documents and videos, no? However, just noticed a mega the founding family kids were using as their cash cow, followed by sexual indiscretions. She was still hoping that he had changed. If I were a member, I would call for a complete replacement. The pair is living in Chicago and is blessed with two children; both boys. My heart goes out to you, all of you, by coming forward you have contributed to breaking this cycle of abuse. I hope you are right about this. Menu. Testimony of victims and witnesses is not gossip. And Charisma House/new Mark Driscoll book . My pray time this morning brought me directly to this passage in Luke Chapter 6 vs 37-42. ? Why not go public 4 years ago?? Finally, we are told to have high standards for our teachers. Though Lynne had intended to become a social worker, she did not hesitate to commit her life to church ministry, convinced that God has given the local church a clear mandate to address the needs of "the whole person in the whole world." This year in 2018, Bill has been publicly accused of sexual harassment and h e has resigned from the megachurch he and Lynne founded. I cant help but see your point here. Other women are coming forward. God is not in the business of secretly brainwashing and subtly mind controlling people. There are plenty of decent good men/women preaching to people week after week who dont take ever advantage of being admired and believed. The kids tried to sue the board to no avail. Her courage will be an inspiration many others. Given the complexity and amount of ongoing business involved in a multi-million-dollar, multi-campus enterprise, I would thank that their legal counsel would have ensured that documents (including emails) from all board members, staff, and other employees would need to be preserved, in case of legal/criminal issues arising. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. So many perps being exposed it looks like the Lord is behind the exposure. They are in denial. Since 1975, when Lynne & Bill Hybels started Willow Creek Community Church, Lynne has been an active volunteer at the church.For the last fifteen years she has engaged in ministry partnerships in under-resourced communities in Latin America and Africa. Anyone who would reject Jesus Christ as his/her savior because of this (or any) scandal was not saved in the first place. Jesus is our model of leadership. This is exactly what I had in mind!? I guess what Im saying is that when a pastor is revealed as an abuser, that doesnt necessarily invalidate everything his church has done. My first international trip with Willow Creek as a staff member was to Tasmania. Not at all but this bit sums up Hybels Leadership acumen we used to make fun of in the 90s. One-World ANYTHING is a recognition signal for End Time Prophecy Wack Job. This was a joke which proved how few people at WCC understand sexual harassment. Satan loves false dichotomies, republicans vs. democrats, Calvinists vs. Arminians, traditional vs. contemporary, etc. Hybels either is, or is not, rightly accused. The next time you make a blanket statement about what the Bible says, pause, think about it, Google and find some help for these difficult concepts. WITCHES! Paul was a tentmaker, so they had other jobs. Was Hybels intimating that The Ambien made me do it? Read this account posted by Vonda Dyer. Its harder to sweep things under the rug when internet on-lookers are looking under rugs 24-7. kwim, dees? Same outrage. Hugging spouse and kids a lot is good. And I never understood why Hybels did not step down when his wife (Lynne) had a HUGE crisis of faith. Please join me in praying for WCC, the victims, and the leaders. Since Hybels resigned, a few of the accusers have stated that they did not want it to come to that. @ truthseeker00: ) bugs me. Dear TWW readers, I am in Australia so I comment and tweet and post things on FB when you are asleep if you are in the USA. The premise of con- templative spirituality is pantheistic (God is all) and panentheistic (God is in all). (In a related relevant situation, wasnt it the tech department that noticed irregularities with messaging from Tullian Tchividjian to women that directly led to the disclosure of his misconduct?). Peoples boundaries and privacy should never be breached unless specifically invited or welcomed to do so one way or the other. It works but is it the faith? If people doubted my testimony about being assaulted by a guy who publicly harassed women that nobody could stand, then certainly they wont believe their favored celebrity can do things like that. B wrote: And I admit to being raised that public displays of affection between adults was not the best as it might make some uncomfortable. In the meantime, Crossway is still publishing and selling C.J. Who would believe any of it if it were not for the Ortbergs? Western Christians seem to view hell as a location whereas Eastern Christians seem to view it as a state of being. No longer have their careers as a result of their actions @ Law Prof: So when comparitve newcomer Paul withstood Cephas to his face because he stood to be condemned per Galatians 2:11-14, some may have seen it as slamming one of Gods anointed. Salvation: in the ned this in the hands of the One with the higher Pay Grade. Then read the story of Phillip and the Ethiopian Eunuch. Position? @ Davis and Natasha: Wild!!! CHICAGO (RNS) Willow Creek Community Church still grappling with former senior pastor Bill Hybels' history of alleged sexual harassment and abuse of power now . Those are, in my opinion, less the goals than the tools used to achieve the real goals, which I am guessing are not the spiritual health of the Body of Christ. Thanks, Barbara, for your outstanding work. He is the founder of the Willow Creek Association and creator of the Global Leadership Summit . What I count is as follows: Ive been wondering if church leaders with abusive pastors have become convinced (or have convinced themselves) that, 1) Sexual misconduct is somehow rampant among charismatic pastors Is it even possible that one leads to the other, as the power dynamic created by abuse is addictive? The important thing is to get people on the bandwagon, and manipulate them to maintain their undying love and loyalty. Betty Schmidt gave 5 specific ways the current Willow Creek elders have misquoted and misrepresented her. he has no idea who well you know Scripture. (Usually seeker Megas go with you are just human and made mistakes and not you are a worm so its to be expected. The comments from some in the WCC Trebuchet Club has brought this home to me. Have you any clue how prideful this sounds? What a biblically ignorant person you are, Brad. But if you read Jodies clever rant, take ortberg name out of the picture and just think about what the culture was like there. And ironically, asking that question is why. At least you know what they are upfront . Thats what she thinks is comparable? No quid pro quo to substantiate. For many years, they were THE place when on job hunt. @ dee: Christianity is so intertwined with our society as the religion that the majority, if they dont believe, at least pay lip service to. My only (small) hang-up is that the authors, Bill and Lynne Hybels, use examples and stories that are probably pretty dated for 22-28 year-olds getting married nowadays. I did, and he asked me to come up for a leadership talk, and told me to come alone. Your experience fits my own. to this, the source of detailed information about the 1,000+ unreadable emails and Bill Hybels policy of not having email messages archived and his explanation of why comes from the initial Chicago Tribune article. plus Ive read very wise authors like: Don Hennessy an relationship counselor in Ireland who has worked for decades in the field of domestic abuse. You expect typical bad rock star behavior, more likely, because thats the norm. At TWW, comments become a place of learning and exposure. Mary, read your Bible carefully. You are guilty of judging, something you say we are not to do. I do and I wont allow this pathetic attempt to hurt another. Even then, she was ashamed about what happened to her, as if it was her fault. I was never a member, but many family members were including on the entertainment, I mean worship, team. His wife had died rapidly of inflammatory breast cancer and we were at the funeral home for visitation. I hope so. I am going to assume this women does not know how business is conducted these days. Being gracious, forbearing people who do not want to hold our pastor to the standard of perfection, we persuade ourselves that we misread the situation, misunderstood the words, are making too big a deal of silly things, and so on. I think people are starting to realize that even if someone starts out with good intentions, when they get power and money, they tend to be corrupted. Glad I found that out. There is really not a comparison to what the two men did. I grew up around some. @ Davis and Natasha: I mean, it makes for good gossip too. Followed by the disciples, who never promoted themselves, built buildings, staged shows, had followers, had a staff. During that meeting, an Elder told a WCA Board member that Willow Creek had no document retention policy. This was the first time either Board had heard about this arrangement, but both of these women told us separately that Bill had told them about this special arrangement years prior. By the time you get there, youve probably already been compromised yourself, youve supported a lot of evil things, youve shouted down others who were only trying to get at the truth (as I once did, alassorry, Adam, you were right and I was wrong, pastor really was up to no good), and its not easy to extricate yourself or your family. Using God like a tool. Global Leadership huh Bill ? I agree/support the various responses to Brad Brucker. Dont allow it in your personal life. It never appeared that they were the type of people that would not speak up. But is that truthful? While WW can be messy, I think most poster here just want honesty, transparacy, and protection/respect of the weaker ones. I can't apologize for his choices, but I do apologize for mine," she explained. Another case of a desperate preacher caught with his hand in the cookie jar looking for an excuse and sympathy from gullible followers. Excellent comment! We'll talk about that in the week ahead. If you all think that personal shopping is sex abuse, you need to get real. So your mind overrides your gut. But the church's growth also took a professional and personal toll on Hybels, who had married his. Just wondering if theres a way to make it easier to keep up. if one has enough of those there seems to be a scale to weigh behaviors against. When one person has an experience like this with a trusted friend and spiritual leader, they typically dont know how to make sense of it. I am going to ask a hard question. Such a horror of more revictimization. Once again, you are doing Satans work not Gods. It often makes for very lively and interesting discussions. The term sometimes used is secure email. He just got knocked off his pedestal and some of his supporters are throwing up their hands in despair. Kind of surprised it was allowed to stand without edit or response. They need to do some reading. * It is about power and control and until people in churches get this, they will be waaaaay behind the culture. And could it easily be construed as creating complicity by whoever carried out that demand? But, I seriously doubt your using scripture as a club will shame, convince or condemn many here. They get it. We sat under their leadership at Willow Creek for several years and were sad when the Ortbergs left to California. And it shall come to pass that, like as I have watched over them to pluck up and to break down and to overthrow and to destroy and to afflict, so will I watch over them to build and to plant, saith Jehovah. (Jeremiah 31:28), @ Davis and Natasha: What we have a problem with is a man who by his own admission did a lot of untoward things, things that are the very definition of a sexual groomer, and did so behind the scenes while maintaining the aura of one who should be emulated. I did respond and said that I loved Billy Graham I allow comments like this to stand so people can see problems I have experienced within Big Eva. We were in each others homes all the time. How does one explain it? READ MORE: Brian Scotto Net Worth Books Some of his published books are: The Power of a Whisper: Hearing God, Having the Guts to Respond; Too Busy Not to Pray: Slowing down to Be with God; Simplify: Ten Practices to Unclutter Your Soul; He pulled me aside and asked me if anything had happened. Four-One-Nine just a Game And us adults have to learn not to be so easily snookered by evil experts masquerading as wonderful people and pass red flags along to children. Stop claiming to be the victim! Im not convinced that his view of hell can be called heresy. Does Bill Hybels teach pastors how to get more friendly with his staff, but keep it under raps? Sadly, I feel confident that this has not infrequently been engineered by the profiteers running these circus-show churches. She felt even more blessed when in 1985 Mr. Hybels and his wife invited her to move into their home, where she shared family dinners and vacations. We use cookies to ensure that we give you the best experience on our website. Updated | Rev. It is also understandable why John and Nancy Ortbergs relationship with the Hybels took a nosedive. May God raise up more people like Josiah who tore down the high places and every high thing that exalted itself against the knowledge of God until Jesus becomes the only thing worshipped in the church. (Likewise, it seems that women did not have clarity about reportable behaviors and were expected to handle it on their own.). We can all learn from this and make sure to teach your kids. Ive experienced it alsomultiple times. Dont jump to quickly to the question, How could an honest, intelligent person not have seen what was happening under his or her nose for years?. Has anyone complained about inappropriate behavior from John Ortberg? To teach Nancy a lesson with deflection? I though this was sarcasm but maybe she really was arguing that Bill should have that level of influence on anyone-let alone everyone he was bringing along. yikes! I treated my childhood dog like a doll. He wanted to find out if she was still angry with him and what she would do about it if she was. I can assure you that everyone is reading the comments!!! God is always present, even in the hard and dark times. This is kind of my gig, you know. Bill Hybels confessed a few years ago that WC had made a mistake by not encouraging church members to read their Bibles and mature spiritually. It took her a long time to get up the courage to say enough was enough. The student is not above the teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like their teacher. No wonder they get a God complex. Jesus healed that man and told Peter to stow it. Its been drilled into our heads and many are convinced if the perp or deceiver is confronted (even years later) they will repent. some Rabbi from Nazareth. Association of Related Churches The question is why? Only much later did I recall, for instance, my pastor condemning those gossip bloggers who were trying to tear down the church which is how I first found this blog. The gossip inspectors have arrived. These people have patience for the long con. I want to make sure I understand you. Either way, doesnt matter. Some until their death beds. In the book, Turn the Ship Around David Marquet writes: Leadership should mean giving control rather than taking control and creating leaders rather than forging followers. Power is at the top but information is with the hands-on bottom levels of a hierarchy. Shameful! But, still I try not to broad brush. I dont care if its what you like to do. The entire Gospel is predicated on the fact that we are sinners and that we are going to be sinners until we go home. Some of how he came across might also be that to some extent, he too has been a victim of at least some lies and misconstrued intentions. I chose to focus on the positive, job well done, not the negative. This morning, Nancy Ortberg posted Flawed Process, Wounded Women on her website. I do not believe Jesus would have ever behaved the way you and John are acting. I know. Peter Led about 3000 to Christ on the day of Pentacost. Soon as your back was turned, the mask flipped off like a light switch and there was only the contempt of the Predator gloating over the stupidity of his Prey. there was nothing inappropriate about Bill trying to guide your whole self as an up and coming leader. They dont feel like telling anyone, just swallow it and hold it in. @ Davis and Natasha: The church isnt being destroyed. : Willow Creek is worldly like most churches. Hybels was Clintons spiritual advisor. Usually the founding family (Baratheon, Lannister, or Kim) is also the board and the successors and everything gets ripped apart in the resulting family feud/power struggle. Because human beings are still sinful and the combination of money, power, influence and sex remains toxic, systems which largely ape the culture . The information given was half-truths and from the very first email sent out from the elderslacking wisdom and discernment. there was no hostile work environment attached. The church and association are no longer paying Hybels a salary or other payments, according to the report, but a binding retirement agreement is still in place until 2020. Thats how they get by with it. Its so clear how this happened on the womens part. As a p.s. Excellent post. So sad. I saw this in mega churches and just about every secular organization I was in. This is VERY common. Why? Thank you for adding some lightness to this overwhelming news. She had no way of knowing of other incidents and we now see why. Thanks for the info. Uh oh..then we are in trouble. Sexual predation is not based on *wanting to have sex. If you note, the hotel rooms in these narratives were suites and meetings were being held in those rooms. These things were the normal and the personal assistants was more than happy to go along. Rats gnawing cables in two; Look at it this way, if they had waited just 6-months longer Brother Hybels would have been given an honorable exit from the ministry as he faded into retirement without facing these allegations. Yep. Same play book. Is it not I, the LORD? These things are often expected immediately in the Christian world. It was always funny to me (sad really) how when Bill Hybels prayed for/about something no matter what it was, that according to Hybels God always answered him immediately or within days. On Tuesday, Illinois megachurch pastor Bill Hybels announced that he's resigning amid sexual-misconduct allegations made by church members and employees. Publishers are pulling back for a reason. As a victim-advocate and blogger, I feel isolated because of my time zone. @ truthseeker00: And Long Prayers will be said for justification. not for this long. When you read it, I think you might as well. Because saving his legacy saves Willow Creek. First-run movies, gym memberships, bowling alleys, rock-climbing, restaurant franchises, lotsa merch & swag, all for a simple swipe or tap of your card (or phone app) charging each and every tap/swipe to your student loan? Did her husband ask her not to say anything for FEAR of losing his job? 18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. As I continued reading the thread, you did not sound at all like the person on Twitter. I agree. However, I am not going to let every Tom, Dick and Joe Salitas to copy and paste the letter into this comment section. I know this because I have experienced it myself. Maybe you were mistaken, and maybe it was just a fluke and will never happen again. Its never about us, but always focused on Jesus the Perfecter of our faith. Not a word. That said, this is all so tragic. Why not go public 4 years ago?? I have long been leery of Hybels (and other mega church pastors) because these guys are basically Christian rock stars and are treated accordingly. After all, women are not little children who have to run to daddy for every little bump up. Weve both been busy with writing projects and many other things. Think carefully. I was so sorry to learn about all of this yesterday and Willow Creek Church. https://jodiwalle.com/openlettertojohnortberg If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Doing Satans work not Gods kind of my time zone and subtly mind controlling people really a. This topic, which pretty much means that the line of heresy was never defined rooms these... Shock us all elderslacking is lynne hybels still married to bill and discernment interesting discussions mind controlling people Nonsense WCC. Ignorant person you are guilty of judging, something you say we are sinners and that is everyone else personal... 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